tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post2208451018564730143..comments2023-10-29T14:47:14.613+00:00Comments on Cabbages and Kings: Green Party ResignationJosephhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-2891725748679875452012-03-15T22:32:05.633+00:002012-03-15T22:32:05.633+00:00Au Contraire my dear James.
I have from the beginn...Au Contraire my dear James.<br />I have from the beginning maintained my view that I can be much more effective outside the Party whilst remaining a PITA within. <br /><br />But I'm not sure that your principles (or Joseph's) are the same as mine .... you seem to know what mine are so perhaps you could let me know.Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-14380576334750145962012-03-09T14:19:10.989+00:002012-03-09T14:19:10.989+00:00Here here comrade Healy. Alice, people like you ar...Here here comrade Healy. Alice, people like you are prepared to sink all your principles for a party. We are not! Jameswhatisthishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08417302283261860838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-54765125042223545052012-03-06T15:23:19.240+00:002012-03-06T15:23:19.240+00:00The problem the Greens have, and its one they admi...The problem the Greens have, and its one they admit, is that they are not based around the working class - and as such are building themselves up from faulty foundations. The Labour party no longer represents working people - though in the past it because of the pressure from below that it 'appeared' to be better than it actually was. So where do people go from here??? lots of people in this position turn to single issue campaigns - anti-cuts or anti-rascism, womens/gay/black rights etc. All of which are worthy campaigns but at the end of the day have their limitations as to what they can achieve on a level of 'changing society'. The hard truth as i see it is that the root of the problem is capitalism and like it or not, and as hard a task as it may be, that is what has to change! and the only people who can do that are the working class majority in this country (and beyond). <br /><br />I think the 2008 financial crisis has fundmentally changed things in an objective sense. Not everyone will realise this straight away, but gradually we are seeing it - strikes, occupy, arab spring etc etc. as the cuts start to bite. it wont be a straight line - it'll be a winding road - but a generall trend will be an increase in resistance. <br /><br />Looking into the future i can see a ressuragance in confidence in the working class and this is where people need to be. I think, at present the best way to promote the radical ideas needed is by starting a new workers party. I think TUSC is, at present, the best way to build for that in an electorale sense - combined with anti-cuts work, trade union and community work etc.<br /><br />http://www.tusc.org.uk/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-23568031167212201622012-02-28T19:26:56.855+00:002012-02-28T19:26:56.855+00:00Joseph,
You'll be pleasantly surprised how muc...Joseph,<br />You'll be pleasantly surprised how much life there is outside of a Party, as a hack of a long time it took me a bit of getting use to but I found that suddenly there were no more committee meetings. fundraising meetings, meetings for the sake of meetings and I was free to actually spend time campaigning on issues rather than discussing them.<br /><br />It certainly takes a while for the dust to settle, but your friends from the Green Party will still be your friends, and if the're not then they weren't friends in the first place. <br /><br />I remember talking to you about the change in leadership structure of the greens, and thinking you may have been over egging the biscuit, but it seems you were right and I was, well wrong- sadly.<br /><br />All the best<br /><br />PetePete Shieldhttp://www.naturalchoices.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-88887179190279092782012-02-28T00:05:10.627+00:002012-02-28T00:05:10.627+00:00Joseph,
You are a great friend and comrade, along ...Joseph,<br />You are a great friend and comrade, along with Andy Hewett and Teresa Delaney; I am sorry that the Green Party has left us but at the end of the day we are stronger together outside that party whatever. I feel upset about my own resignation after 7 years in the party but I also feel it is necessary as they have sold out completely. If the Irish lesson is one that you taught me, it is sad that Brighton have decided to go the same way.<br />Solidarity with you as always and I have no doubt that I will work with members of the GP in future on issues that we share, it is sad they have been so deeply betrayed.James Youdnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-84928509221109450582012-02-27T11:56:01.581+00:002012-02-27T11:56:01.581+00:00Until you have politicians you can trust, you have...Until you have politicians you can trust, you have nothing.<br /><br />Brighton Hove Council doubled council tax over a ten year period (*after* inflation) - raising an extra £60,000,000 per year. Yet the city still has 10,000 kids living in 'poverty'.<br /><br />The council has no shortage of money to end poverty - it simply has other priorities.<br /><br />Brighton and Hove have an obese public sector and 'voluntary' sector - fat from easy money accumulated in the good years. While the people paid in these areas are making a good living, those who are supposed to be benefiting from the money are still cold, hungry, uneducated and unhealthy.<br /><br />If Greens (or Labour or Conservatives) were going to fix this, they would have done so already.<br /><br />I hope you find radical political change - and agree you won't find it with the Greens.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10605617930455114746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-18422467634695705162012-02-27T09:39:02.859+00:002012-02-27T09:39:02.859+00:00Thanks Peter. I also very much admired your fight ...Thanks Peter. I also very much admired your fight against Fascism and xehophobia and for a diverse and multicultural society and party. I think that the Greens have to be very careful about replicating the traditional power structures and there has always been a current in the party which, under the cover of 'professionalising the party' have wanted to sideline and silence those who see the need for a much more non-hierarchical and radical politics, which was the vision of the Green movement in the 70s and 80s. Ireland and the Czech Republic are grim warnings of what can happen.<br /><br />Will definitely meet you for a Guinness either in London or Liverpool.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-86995497296102696902012-02-27T09:34:07.158+00:002012-02-27T09:34:07.158+00:00Thanks Daniel, lets meet up. I have nothing but co...Thanks Daniel, lets meet up. I have nothing but contempt for Labour. I work in Lambeth and have seen how they are decimating local services and the voluntary sector and disciplining those cllrs who resist. I will contact you after I get back from holiday.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-30449663914534499642012-02-27T09:23:20.436+00:002012-02-27T09:23:20.436+00:00Hi Steve, thanks for your kind words. There are ce...Hi Steve, thanks for your kind words. There are certainly many good people working in the party, I have never questioned that. The policies are also good. But a word of caution. I went to conferences of the European Green Party for over 4 years. I saw Green parties change fundamentally in Ireland and the Czech Republic and those who spoke out were sidelined or called 'naive' or 'idealists'. I actually think that the EU is a much stronger force than you think and the position of the Green Group in the Euro Parliament is very significant. The dangers of being sucked into the power machine, a la Brighton, are far more significant at European level. <br /><br />I respect much of the work that Jean Lambert MEP has done for migrants and around human rights and LGBT issues in the European Parliament but she has also voted for transnational lists, which the Green Group supports, which signify a very important transfer of power to European level parties away from national ones. We can already see in Greece the impact of what happens when the EU bodies have too much power and seek to sideline the national and local democratic structures.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-10798393425144676782012-02-27T09:16:19.235+00:002012-02-27T09:16:19.235+00:00Well Alice, I did not take the decision lightly an...Well Alice, I did not take the decision lightly and I am sure that there are some in the party glad to see the back of me. But I have never been a careerist and always had a reputation in the party for speaking out. In fact I believe that it is essential for Greens to speak truth unto power and not to become part of the power structures - I mean always having a radical stance.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-47633633688157016452012-02-27T09:13:56.265+00:002012-02-27T09:13:56.265+00:00Yes we have met Justin and I am also based in Sout...Yes we have met Justin and I am also based in Southwark. Will have a look and get back to you.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-32018356691968765632012-02-27T09:12:49.681+00:002012-02-27T09:12:49.681+00:00Thanks Paul. Yes I remember you in Green Left and ...Thanks Paul. Yes I remember you in Green Left and we met at several conferences. I agree re the Leader which I strenuously opposed. Although the cuts were the touch paper, there were things happening in the party with which I strongly disagreed - this came to a head six months ago over the appalling treatment of staff and the reaction of the party leadership to that, when the members had the temerity to challenge decisions, and the contempt displayed towards activists was deeply depressing and concerning. It was along the lines of "how dare these people raise their voices." All of this contributed to my feeling of disillusionment about the party.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-54137133975314168442012-02-27T09:08:55.277+00:002012-02-27T09:08:55.277+00:00Thanks Matt. You were always one of the people in ...Thanks Matt. You were always one of the people in the party whose integrity and willingness to speak out I most admired. I hope that we will remain in contact.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-79852376359245291102012-02-27T09:07:33.784+00:002012-02-27T09:07:33.784+00:00Thanks Simeon. I will continue as a disabled perso...Thanks Simeon. I will continue as a disabled person who works for a disability organisation campaigning on disability issues. One of the reasons for my anger over Brighton is that I visit disabled and vulnerable people every day at work and see the impact of the cuts - and only a small percentage of those cuts have been implemented so far.<br /><br />As for my future plans - I have answered above.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-68452296703661905572012-02-27T09:05:02.514+00:002012-02-27T09:05:02.514+00:00I would never joing the Labour Party, although I k...I would never joing the Labour Party, although I know that there are good people in it. One of the reasons I left the Greens was that I never wanted to end up like the Labour Left crying over the party's past and hoping for the return of a 'golden period' which never really existed in the Labour Party. I totally support working with the Left in general, and that includes Left Labour members, in the trade union and anti-cuts movements. There is a need for a party to the Left of Labour but Labour is now so much a part of the neo-liberal establishement that I would never consider joining. I have great respect for Left Labour MPs like Jeremy Corbyn but where are their younger counterparts?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-30521711180284418302012-02-27T09:01:18.719+00:002012-02-27T09:01:18.719+00:00Yes, but we all have our red lines and as I said i...Yes, but we all have our red lines and as I said in my post the attack on the poor and the welfare state etc is of historica proportions. Greens must be radical or they are nothing. I think that Greens need to read more about the history of the Green movement and its original principles. So many Green parties have sold out on them.<br /><br />I am very busy as an officer of the Coalition of Resistance fighting the cuts around the country and building links with the anti-austerity movement in Europe. I am also still Chair of the London Ambulance Service Patients Forum, which keeps me very busy with the NHS and improving patient and public involvement. I am not joining any political group or party if that is what you mean. Initially I will be taking a week's holiday and taking time out to take stock.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13940128496978545696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-20702961925126175802012-02-26T22:46:56.425+00:002012-02-26T22:46:56.425+00:00While I disagree with your analysis Joseph, I am s...While I disagree with your analysis Joseph, I am sorry to see you go from the party. You've worked hard over the years you've been involved and your service does you huge credit. I'm sure you'll continue to be a force for good in whatever campaigning role you will undoubtedly go on to. I hope that we'll have a pint of Guinness in different circumstances at a future time.<br /><br />Best wishes<br /><br />Peter CraniePeter Craniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00360575849841504671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-52325861470058036292012-02-26T21:44:11.094+00:002012-02-26T21:44:11.094+00:00Joseph,
We have never met but I will miss your po...Joseph,<br /><br />We have never met but I will miss your posts on the London List. I am so sorry you have taken the decision to leave the Green Party. <br /><br />I missed the Cardiff conference but I totally follow your logic and reasoning. However, because Brighton is the first place we have held any sort of power in the UK I think we have a special need to act responsibly. <br /><br />I don't thing you should be too harsh on the Greens, but should look instead at Labour, who have truly disappointed me by opposing our anti-cuts budget. <br /><br />I hope you reconsider and we both live in London so if you would like to go for a drink to discuss please get in touch. I doubt if I can change your mind but it would be great to understand your point of view even better.<br /><br />Best wishes<br /><br />Daniel Goldsmith<br />Hounslow Green Party <br />tel 07760 287 021Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-42212185153302577702012-02-26T03:58:47.505+00:002012-02-26T03:58:47.505+00:00Hi Joe.
I would not dream of giving you any "...Hi Joe.<br /><br />I would not dream of giving you any "please stay..." bilge, this is clearly something that has been building up and I totally respect and admire your decision.<br /><br />Naturally it makes me very sad and The Green Party and Green Left are far worse off now without your brains, effort and excellent reputation.<br /><br />I think your analysis is correct, but for me the bigger problem isn't betrayal of principles we might call "left leaning" - it is the apparent lack of political foresight and a very possible trap that people have walked into here.<br /><br />I haven't really got to the bottom of what went on, perhaps the reasonings are all too predictable and redolent of the "grey" parties.<br /><br />I know too well the lessons of Ireland, not all the parallels are exact, but too many are. Ditto the sort of excuses LD and Labour come out with when they do even fouler ("..but lots of our ideas did get through...er...tough decisions of government...")<br /><br />I will remain in the party for now at least because there are still many green things I think it is committed to that are worthwhile (for example some people you have strongly critiqued down the years are very good on animal issues).<br /><br />I also think we have candidates worth working for at council elections where I am (no chance of having power) and the Euro Election (the EU is a crock, but at least our MEPs can't do the kind of harm you are citing). <br /><br />But I don't think I will be able to use anti cuts arguments as a reason to vote Green, which is a massive shame and obstacle.<br /><br />I will continue doing lots of stuff outside the party without especially trumpeting my tribal affiliation.<br /><br />I take hope in the fact that some very suprising figures are not at all pleased with what has happened, or how it has happened.<br /><br />I hope you can find vehicles at least as useful for your efforts in future months and years, as I hope that your more pessimistic predictions about us prove ill founded.<br /><br />I'll leave it there for now, but will be in touch. Thanks so much for all you have done for GPEW and GL, and for passing so much of your knowledge on to me.<br /><br />Tiocfaidh ár lá.<br /><br />Bob lwch i chi.<br /><br />Steve.Steven Durranthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15683684402330110446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-63645284726729534752012-02-26T01:16:24.646+00:002012-02-26T01:16:24.646+00:00The danger to the Green movement comes from factio...The danger to the Green movement comes from factional in-fighting and power battles. You are right to leave the party as you have an agenda of your own and tunnel vision in pursuit of it. <br /><br />Form your protest faction and see it too split into more factions in time.<br /><br />What on earth would setting an illegal budget that cannot legally be implemented achieve - besides lost public confidence and their votes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-51228162647242301802012-02-25T23:11:59.065+00:002012-02-25T23:11:59.065+00:00Quitter!Quitter!Alicenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-91284286533605797142012-02-25T20:25:52.898+00:002012-02-25T20:25:52.898+00:00Hi Joe,
It's Justin, a black South London ac...Hi Joe, <br /><br />It's Justin, a black South London activist also not in a political party. Glad you've come round yet organised groups are still needed. Please take a look at South London Community Action Network: http://southlondoncan.wordpress.comJustinhttp://www.twitter.com/justinthelibsocnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-20440710685684280662012-02-25T20:18:06.886+00:002012-02-25T20:18:06.886+00:00ByeByeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-16760275615269631282012-02-25T19:49:17.785+00:002012-02-25T19:49:17.785+00:00Joseph,
It is a great loss to the GPEW that you ar...Joseph,<br />It is a great loss to the GPEW that you are leaving the party. I did so 3 years ago and I feel that as soon as the party accepted that we needed to become part of the accepted line of having a single leader that the writing was on the wall. I wish you well in joining the ranks of the increasing number of unaligned independent socialists in the UK who are campaigning on many fronts.Paul Cooneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-115706494122525751.post-70668560508054537982012-02-25T17:15:48.926+00:002012-02-25T17:15:48.926+00:00Very sorry to hear about this, Joseph, I appreciat...Very sorry to hear about this, Joseph, I appreciate where you are coming from.<br /><br />MattMatt Sellwoodhttp://anglobuddhistcombine.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.com